September-October 2009

[reachout]

Is hell really a physical place?

[Barnabas]

Is hell really a physical place?

IMO yes

[dingbat]

imho - yes and no!

At the moment, I believe 'hell' is more of a 'condition' - there is the real experience of suffering - imagine realising what wonderful blessings you've missed out on - and having that feeling of regret gnawing at your heart for all eternity. I think that would feel like burning or having a worm nibbling away

I don't see hell as a place of externally inflicted torture - the torture is entirely self-inflicted!

I'll stop rambling before I cease making sense!

[JT]

it matters not as long as what 'hell;' 'lake of fire' 'outer darkness' etc actually MEANS is communicated and understood.
1.Utter and comnplete JUSTICE will happen.
2.not everyone can or will be 'saved'.
3. There is a place where at least for a while God is not.

[Edc]

imho - yes and no!

At the moment, I believe 'hell' is more of a 'condition' - there is the real experience of suffering - imagine realising what wonderful blessings you've missed out on - and having that feeling of regret gnawing at your heart for all eternity. I think that would feel like burning or having a worm nibbling away

I don't see hell as a place of externally inflicted torture - the torture is entirely self-inflicted!

I'll stop rambling before I cease making sense!

Why would a God of love keep someone in existence for all eternity in a state of feeling regret ?.

[JT]

im closer to you on this one Eddie....but we must be careful that our 'philosophical or emotional arguments dont outweigh our biblical ones. Torment does exist...look up the word in the NT in hell, its what the big picture is we need to understand.

[Edc]

Hey, Jt, me and you getting close....now thats worrying

I cant escape my emotional feelings....its the way we are made. I sometimes wonder whether the [i]biblical [/i]arguments are the only correct ones.

After all who says that the biblical arguments are the last word ?. When in fact that few christians agee on what the the bible says.

[JT]

two issues
1, is the bible the last word
2. its interpretation.


mixing the two can lead to despair ....and confusion.

[Sceptical]

IMHO he'll is not a physical place, just as heaven us not a physical place either.

Both are 'conditions' not attached to an afterlife but are realities now. We can be subject to our own 'hells' as well as experiencing true peace ("The Kingdom of Heaven is within you/at hand/near").

[dingbat]

Why would a God of love keep someone in existence for all eternity in a state of feeling regret ?.

Hi Ed, you missed my point that the torture is self-inflicted! So you could reason that it's actually nothing to do with God. I'll elaborate a bit further in considering this point noted by JT

3. There is a place where at least for a while God is not.

If this is the case then is God not omnipresent? Does that not remove one of God's essential qualities?

Back to Eds comment and my 'take' - if the primary cause of all sin is selfishness/pride, then it may be that the one so lost in that selfishness is too inward-looking and focused on 'damning' themselves because of their lost opportunity that they still, for all eternity refuse to look outward - and find that God is still there, still waiting for them to turn even though it will probably never happen...

I hope I'm making some sense.

[JT]

we create theological constructs and descriptions. They sometimes help they sometimes dont. The 'omnipresence' of God is a theological construct, it is supposedly based on the scriptures. It is only valid if understood as sumarising what God has revealed of himself through the scriptures. In this instance it is not helping us....because the argument 'because God is omnipresent he cant be 'not' somehwre. Does the scripture teach God is everywhere, does the famous passage in Psal 139 say this? could God in some sense be 'in ' hell but not there if you know what I mean.

[dingbat]

Does the scripture teach God is everywhere, does the famous passage in Psal 139 say this?

Not directly! I know that some commentators take Psalm 139 as being David's own experience of the closeness of God in his life as opposed to a proof that 'God is everywhere' - perhaps its the fine line between omnipresence and immanence (God with us) which causes this disagreement/paradox?

could God in some sense be 'in ' hell but not there if you know what I mean.

Now I think we have a similar end view but looking through different windows! Again, possibly the immanence/omnipresence paradox? You ask if it's possible that God is 'in hell but not' - I suggest - yes! In my previous description, you could say God is still there - but because they are so tied up in themselves, the person is not seeing that - they lack the immanence of God...

From Psalm 51:

10 Create in me a pure heart, O God,
and renew a steadfast spirit within me.

11 Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.

12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation
and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.


My thought process/concentration is fading now, got a mild concussion I'll try and explain better later maybe!